It’s the run to the line. Works off the track. He’s got all four Michelin over the white line. He’s defending the line. Welcome to Off the Racing Line. I am your host, Carlos Spitia. And with me as always is Mike Moore. Mike, welcome back. Thank you, sir. Always pleasure to be here.
Mike, we have a packed episode today. Episode nine. Man, like every episode. I
can’t believe we actually made it this far. almost double digits. Holy cow. Um, okay.
First things first,
we can’t we need a new slogan. We can’t use Grassroots Motorsports because it’s a trademark name. Grassroots Motorsports
Magazine, right? Does that mean in between the last episode and this episode, we got a phone call from a lawyer. Oh, okay. No, but I it dawned on me. I was like,
that sounds strangely familiar. And of course, I used to get the magazine, Grassroots Motorsports Magazine. So, I figured our friends over there wouldn’t appreciate, you know, us. So, we’re back to square one. I’m thinking something
like where drivers share their stories or the drivers podcast, something like that. So, I’m going to open it up to you guys and also the the audience, you know, if anybody has some good ideas, just, you know, send them in.
Any and I any and all ideas and submissions are welcome. Yeah. Yeah. It’s the people’s podcast.
It’s the driver’s podcast. There you go. We’re getting there. Yeah.
Hey, I spoke to Weston Workman today.
Weston Workman. Yes. That was that was exciting. So, for for those that don’t know, the introduction to the episode is a short clip from um from an IMSA MX5 Cup race at Sebring 2024. Uh it was the
second race and Weston was leading um by that point. And it was essentially just
elbows out. He was completely off the racing line. He was defending. And to be
honest with you, it kind of inspired the title of the podcast, off the racing line. Like he was completely off the racing line. So, I reached out to him and I was like, “Hey, man, like you’re on you’re at the beginning of every episode. It’s only fitting that you would be a guest.” And he was just like, “Yes, I’ll do it.” Like, he was so excited. Really um a lot of like great
energy with with that young man. Um an incredibly talented driver. Yes. Yeah. We Yeah, it’d be great to have him
on the show.
Yes. We started diving into like, you know, what what was going through his mind as he was approaching turn 17. If anybody has not watched that, go look at it on on um on YouTube. Um race number
two, 2024 AMS MX5 Cup at Sebring. Holy cow. Watch the last two um laps.
Incredible racing by Weston. And and I was like, Weston, I have so many questions about that, but don’t tell me yet cuz let’s save it for for the show. He wants to be on right now. We’re just working out the details on when, you
know, he might be able to uh to come in. So excited about that. Um, I ordered two
sets of American Eagle jeans. I figured I might as well order them now before, you know, they sell out, right? I figure, uh, you know, Sydney Sweeney was a inspiration to that decision. Perfect. I’m not going to lie. Um, we’re going to be testing a new format.
Okay. Next week, uh, we’re going to be
recording live from Homestead Speedway at the Far event.
Fantastic. Live for on location. Yes. Well, we’re really branching out there. Uh, I’m excited and nervous about it. We
haven’t done anything like that, but it’s only fitting, right? Like the studio is great. Um, podcast junkies,
they do an amazing job of putting this thing together. Uh, but filming on location, I think it’s fitting.
Yeah, for sure. No, it’ be absolutely phenomenal. Yeah, I look forward to that. Absolutely. All right, let’s get into it. Today’s episode is brought to you by
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and start your track adventure today. All right, let’s get into it. Um, our guest today has more years in
motorsports than most of us have on this planet. Well, that’s I mean, you could
have started a little softer than that. No. My god. There’s a point to that. There’s a a point why I I did that. Anyways, he’s
been tearing up tarmac since before many of you were born. I’m going to keep hammering that point,
right? I’m sure he’s having a great time so far. Starting with slalom events in Panama
back when it wasn’t even called autocross yet. Uh, at 70 72 years young,
he has yet to slow down. He’s still hunting tents in his F80M3,
chasing Mike Moore through corners in FAR’s superlap series, and showing
younger drivers how it’s really done, both behind the wheel and from the
passenger seat. He’s a two-time national autocross champion, a licensed FIA racer, a senior instructor, and when
he’s not putting down lap times, he’s driving the pace car for FAR and other racing organizations.
This man’s been off the racing line since before it was cool. David Schnar, welcome to the show.
Thank you, Carlos. Thank you very much. What an intro. What What could I ask for? I’m just thrilled that somebody got to
refer to me as younger. This is great. Dave may be my new favorite guest. Young
Mike, right? Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Um, as I was putting together this episode, I was I started getting more
and more excited about it because you bring so much experience to the table. Uh, I didn’t honestly to be honest with
you, like we’ve known each other for close to two decades now. I didn’t realize how much of a legend
you are in this sport cuz you let’s we’re going to get into it and we talked a little bit about how you got started
in motorsports uh and your days in Panama. Um, but it’s the the more I
listen to your story, it was just fantastic and I want to be able to share that with our listeners. So, let’s jump into uh some of the story that you
shared with me, your time in Panama when it was wasn’t called autocross yet. It was it was slalom. Um tell me how you
got started. Well, my like most people, my father was very interested in motorsports. So, it
was kind of natural that my brother and I, who’s a year younger, would be involved in everything that was
motorsport. We started out going to the events. We were the little kids that showed up with mom and dad at the local
slalom event which was held at back then Sundays at a movie theater parking lot.
Today you can’t use a movie theater parking lot for a slalom but back then the shopping malls were closed on the
weekends and we had plenty of spaces to do that. So, you know, that’s how it kind of got started, his dad. And then
when I got a driver’s license, he was excited as anybody else to, you know, hey, let’s get some motor vehicles here
and start driving. Um, and so we started out with some really basic cars. Um, the
first one that we really did a competitive thing was uh a Honda S800, which is kind of like a Mini Cooper or
an Austin Healey Sprite, but uh a little smaller. So, it was it’s a little more
roomy mic than, you know, I was going to say I’m surprised you fit in there. Yeah, it’s it’s roomier than it was back
then. Of course, when you’re thinner, you know, and younger, it’s it’s easier to get in out. But um so we did this
Honda S800 for many years, autocrossed it, road raced it, had got an FIA
license all in Panama when and Panama now has a very professional racetrack uh
that they have. But back then it was a little eighth mile dragway with some turns that connected the ends together.
Uh it was a lot of fun. So that was like the intro to the motorsport and and that that took us, you know,
until kind of like we went to college and stuff, you know, it took up a lot of space and time to do that.
So tell me a little bit of the the difference in the cultural differences between doing that the autocross uh in
Panama and then once you started doing it competitively in the US. Interesting question because there the
car sizes are totally different. I mean, everybody, a 1300 Alfa Romeo sedan was
like the hot ticket. There were several other Honda S800s back then. Um, most
everything was very small, small displacement because gasoline even back
then was, you know, a dollar a quart. So, can you imagine uh it was very
expensive to even do stuff like this, right? So, you know, the culture was a little different. I mean obviously everybody we
did everything pretty much in Spanish and I was still you know in mi in the midst of uh being being culturally
impacted by having a different language and culture in my life to begin with. You speak Spanish?
I do. I do. I speak Spanish. It’s mostly because I you know when you’re young person and you move out of the country
and you’re with all your high school friends, you have to learn the language or you you get the crap beat out of you
at lunchtime. You know what I mean? So, it was pretty easy to learn the language because you’re that gringo that doesn’t
know Spanish. Exactly. You know, and they said, “Well, maybe you ought to change your hair color or something, but you know, that
never happened.” Let’s talk about the autocross to uh national championships. You um tell me
about your training, the techniques, the mindset at that level and how you
essentially arrived at 15 podiums and two national titles. you know, what
killed what what I guess what’s most interesting today and Mike uses a lot of technology on the track. Uh technology
wasn’t such a big deal back then, but my first experiences with technology were
with this device called a G analyst. And if you can imagine, it’s kind of like having a plate on the front of your
car with a ball in it. And your goal was to make the ball stay on the outside of
the plate rather than moving back and forth on the plate. That’s like the gmeter in the Garmin,
right? But just analog the Fred Flintstone version. Analog was very polite way
analog version of it. I’m old, bud. Come on. So this thing sat on the floor of your
car and you calibrated it when with the car steady and uh that’s what happened. And so we would see a graph with just
the friction circle. And the friction circle is what was used to hone your skills. And I did that, you
know, through various cars and and maturing. But when I got my first real car, which is a 86 944 turbo, that was a
really key element to my learning how to handle the car, get a sense of weight
balancing, um, what was happening when I stepped on the gas and the brakes. So,
you know, this is something that you would go back and look at after the uh the competition, not not while, right?
Correct. It would give you a little a little screen that you could hit the button and kind of it was kind of like
recorded on there so you could see how close you were staying to the friction circle. This makes a lot more sense why you’re
such a good driver to be perfectly honest with you. Like so many people, you know, they just get out there and they just kind of like winging it. It it
really makes a lot more sense now why you are still so highly competitive. I’ll bet I used that thing for 2 years.
I still have it. It’s in a box in my closet because the thing was so useful
to me and today I don’t use any Garmin or anything. I use a GoPro to protect
myself from any challenges mostly. But um seat of the pants, understanding how
weight balancing and how to utilize the whole friction circle was really the key for me in in becoming competitive.
Yeah. Okay. So, tell me what separates a good autocross driver from a great one.
Well, that’s another great question because autocross is kind of a skill set by itself. It it translates to road
racing or track days pretty well. It doesn’t really work very well the other
way, though. So, if you’re a if you do a lot of dees and track days and you say,
“Hey, I’m going to go out there and really knock some heads with my autocross skills.” You’ll probably learn
a few things on the way. So, that it is a unique set of skills in an autocross
um that road racers or people that do a lot of track days will never never
really experience. Yeah. I myself have never gone to an autocross. It just it never interested
me. It never did anything to me. So, I’m sure that it does not surprise me to learn that it is a different skill set.
Like when a lot of times when you get a when you’re sitting in the right seat instructing somebody that only has autocross experience, you can tell
because their hands are so fast and that just doesn’t work at 130 mph. What works
at 27 miles an hour. Yeah. Yeah. You can imagine when the corners come up in an autocross, they’re one
after the other, you know. So you’re another skill that’s really really important is
visualization. I I think it’s a key and it could it could can be used very well
in the racetrack as well. Visualization is not memorization. I think a lot of
people memorize racetracks and autocross courses when all they need to do is visualize it. That means you should be
able to walk around on the ground and basically do all the turns and turnins
and where the cones are in a small space so that in your brain you already have it set up so that when you get there
there’s no surprises. One of the things that we always talk about in in track days and in racing is
looking ahead, looking as far ahead as possible. I imagine that’s still the case in autocross, right? except you’re
looking all the way to the finish because it’s only a minute in most cases. So a minute, can you imagine if
you were on the racetrack and you did the whole thing in a minute? I mean, it would things would come up so fast and
that’s what happens is that you mentioned steering wheel, brakes, pedals, you know, car movement, uh how
the car responds and reacts is all happening very much quicker. You feel like you’re really busy.
Is it something to watch? Not so much. People go to autocrosses and they say, “Well, I’m gonna go to the autocross
and, you know, I’m gonna spectate.” It’s a pretty boring thing to see cars going through a parking lot,
right? Oh, even track days, just HPDE, like it’s not going to draw a crowd like racing is.
Yes. Yeah, that’s true. Um, let’s talk about moving from autocross to road racing. You know, what
inspired you to to get the FIA license and tell me a little bit about your racing experience? Yeah, I think you
know most of us have a competitive spirit and so on when somebody puts another challenge in front of you, hey,
you’re a really good autocrosser. Have you ever done anything else? Well, you just challenged me. Yeah, I’m going to
find out what else I can do with my car. And and that’s I think how you get to the next level is that you’re kind of
challenged. And we do that kind of in our organization too at FRA where we try
to take people from HPDE maybe instructor maybe not and take them once
they get advanced enough to our you know uh superlap series and then the next
thing is to graduate them through a racing school right into the racing series and it’s the same
type of thing that happens even for an autocrosser you’re challenged you want to go to HPDE
you try a a couple of track days, you find out since you have autocross experience, a few laps, you kind of know
where you’re going and where you need to be on the course and uh then you advance can advance very quickly through the
ranks just like we do today, right? So that that kind of stayed the same. So, what was um I guess you talked you
talked about how what inspired you to go racing, but tell me about your racing
experience like where where did you race, what series, and eventually what
happened? You you told me that you fell out of love with it, so you stopped racing. Well, you know, and that and I
think that has a lot to do with how the how you feel about the racing because a lot of things that I did on the track in
in four years of racing, every every opportunity with PBOC, which was
Porsche, BMW, Owners Club of Florida at the time where you and I spent time together, right?
Um I think a lot of times, um, you know, that turned into something a little bit
more. There were a lot of cars on course. It seemed like it was a a a super deal. I could win my class. And
then at some point in time after you you you win those challenges, you win a couple races. Um you start getting, you
know, you have an older car now. It’s been beat on the track a few times, you just have thoughts like maybe I should
be watching what I’m doing, guarding what I’m doing. Because many times, I
can tell you I came down 10 into 11 at Homestead a couple times only to see a
car sideways in front of me, right? And you wonder, you know, you you do I
have a premonition or what? because for some reason at the last minute that car got out of my way one way or the other
in the grass or you maybe you’ve experienced it’s hard to see this really at a HPDE
but those um those skills that you learn racecraft is what you know what you see
in Todd and what you see in Weston those are those are skills that you learn that you don’t get in HPDE or or most track
type events and those are the things that I really enjoyed was was the racecraft and I thought it made me
faster cuz I was my time was always better on the race day in the race than it was in qualifying. Um, but you know,
you get to the point where, you know, that happens a few dozen times and you’re thinking again, you know, maybe I
have taken this to the to the limit, right? And it’s starting to bother me that I,
you know, it it could be riskier than I want it to be at this point in my life. I think that’s where self-perseverance
starts kicking in, right? And and that’s what you probably heard some of the episodes that I talked about when I
started realizing that maybe instructing wasn’t for me anymore. I think that that signal in your head started kind of
flashing like, “Hey, you know, maybe we should do something else.” Yeah. You My brother was in a a black uh
early uh E30 M3 going into the hairpin,
the old hairpin at Sebring, and the car, you know, the guy went flying in there. He couldn’t control the driver. It was
upside down. My brother’s upside down in the car. The guy’s upside down in the car. I’m driving by as a instructor in
another car. Yeah. Watch looking at my brother upside down in the corner. You know, they undid
their seat belts and everything uh and got out of the car. Everybody was fine, but they had to get the car right side
up and and it makes you think about those things more and more. I think the instructor role though is really
important. It’s it’s important because you want to give something back. For sure. Sure. It’s and you know what a
great way to give back to the the hobby that we all love and we all started with an instructor in the right seat. So it’s
yeah it’s great to give back to the community and help that next generation of of people that light bulb goes off and you know you’re inspiring somebody
and then a lot of those people then two three five years later they become instructors themselves and it’s just
this sort of you know conveyor belt of keeping the the hobby alive and I think you know when I do the pace
car duty it’s sort of giving back. I mean, I don’t take any money or or compensation or food or anything. I just
do it for track time, right? Um because I want to contribute. And you know, we’ve all been in that case where
we’re we’re maybe thinking, second guessing, should we be instructors? Should we be racers? But there’s some
point in time where, you know, and I’ve done flagging. I’ve at Homestead. I’ve volunteered to be a flagger at a corner
station. Those are all good fun things to do. And and we should all try to give back as much as we can. I think after
years of being in the sport, now I think more about giving back and that’s why I
I’m a part of the senior instructor status with Mike is that I want to give back. Yeah. And we love it.
So, we’re going to talk a little bit about we’re going to dive into the details of you driving the pace car for
FAR and a little bit of also how you volunteer to mentor uh new instructors
for FAR’s instructor training school. We’re going to get into that in a minute. I I want to stay on the
progression, you know, your progression in motorsports. Um, you and I met back
around 2008. Um, how how has the culture
around track days changed in let’s say those two decades? Um, have you noticed
a shift in in the perception or even the drivers? I I have I think um you know it
was uh very much a uh I don’t know if this is the word to use an amateur type
of thing or you know less experienced people cars were slower. Yeah.
And then now we’re you know at the point where you have to go to a track day in order to even utilize your car. you
know, I have a, you know, 450 horsepower BMW that where am I going to what am I
supposed to do with that car down A1A? You know what I mean? I have to go somewhere with it.
So, the cars have changed a lot considerably. But how about the people? Do do you see
a culture change? Um, just that I I think a lot of young people think they’re going to go on the
track and immediately be successful. And I don’t know what their idea of success is.
Sometimes it’s, you know, I was just happy to have a a day when I went home with the same car in the same condition.
That is what we say in every driver’s we when we’re talking to the beginners that you your number one goal should be to
get home with both you and your car in the same condition that it arrived in. Number two, be safe and have fun. Right.
Yeah. I I think those are the highest priorities now. I you know everybody wants to I I hear we used to not allow
timing at track days. So they have prohibited it for and maybe
you remember some of the PCA events. They used to they didn’t let you time anything, right? Even even yourself. They wouldn’t
let you use like a Garmin or a anything because they didn’t want you to go out there and brag about your time. They
wanted you to learn the track, be safe, know where the corner workers were, and get off and on the track successfully
and go home in your own car. Yeah. Now it those devices are so prolific like the Garmin. You get into a
a novice, you know, driver and chances are they’re going to have a Garmin, you know, already installed in their car.
How do you deal with that as a as an instructor? Do you just gently say, “Hey, let’s not let’s turn that off.” No, actually, I love it. Uh,
fortunately, the Garmin has, you know, they’re really smart about stuff. Um, I absolutely love the device. It helps so
much because when you get out of the car, you can actually review in near real time,
right? Hey, remember when I was saying to, you know, track out after one? See where your car is? Okay, see all that
room over there on your right hand side, right? You’re leaving like eight feet over there. We need to use the whole track. But the reason that I don’t
object to it at all is because fortunately the people at Garmin are smart. And there is a option that you
can turn the screen off while you’re in the car. So, if I ever have a student that is like you see them, you see them
looking out of the corner of their eye to see what kind of lap time they’re running, very simple. You just shut it off. it continues to collect all the
data, collect all the video, but the screen is completely blank when you’re in the car. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, one
of, um, you know, knowing you for so long and again, as I was preparing for the show, um, I started I was looking
through some of our the older pictures. Um, and it’s a really great memory that I have with you. Um, I started doing
HPDE events with PBOC. My first track day was at Sebring in a E46 330. After
doing a few events with that car, I real it was an automatic, too. I realized, you know what? This car is just it’s I I
I couldn’t force it. It wasn’t a manual because it was automatic. So, it just wasn’t staying in the gear. It just
wasn’t ready for the track. So, I went out and bought an E46M3. As soon as I bought that, took it
straight to Sebring. You’re my instructor. Um, that first time that I I brought that car. It was a black E46 M3.
You were my instructor then. Um, this is 2008. Fast forward three years later at
Winterfest and you and I are chasing each other and uh it was nose the tail.
Yes, that was a really fun experience. And for the record, you were on street tires, I was on slicks. It’s the only
reason I was keeping pace with you. But it made me feel good knowing that, okay,
now I’m chasing my old instructor, you know, like I’m right there. It was It was And we went, we probably
did, I would say, six laps nose to tail. I was out first, so you you were behind
me, but dogging me the whole time. And I could see that I gained a little bit out of the corners so I could breathe a
little bit by before he got to the next corner because he was on slicks and he was faster in the corners.
Yeah. The breaking zones is where I was. Yeah. Really makes serious ground. So,
uh, you know, and we we had we had both worked really hard on those cars. I think the E46 took a lot more effort
than even my F80 to get prepared for the track. So, you know, but you were fast
and and as soon as you started dogging me enough, I said, “Well, I got to let Carlos by cuz I want to follow him for a
while and see what he’s doing.” And you were spot on. All the lines were good. Unfortunately, that was the end of the
session, but you know, we had a great time. That was a lot of fun. That’s what keeps HPDE and instructing all there is the
camaraderie that you have between well I’m your I’m a competitor of yours and
you know we are on track together many times at the same time watching one another. My favorite is me and Carlos on
the oval at Homestead because Carlos comes to the oval between
three and four for the first time and he is he’s so timid. He’s trying to figure
out do I go high, low, am I on the banking, am I not, where do I go? And I,
you know, I’d been around there in the pace car a lot of times. I kind of knew where I wanted to be and I I went right
around, you know, you were you gave me, you know, a point by probably I saw you
coming. I was like three, you know, like I’m gonna follow you. I’m out of here. He just flew past me. I’m like, “Okay, I
guess we can go faster through here.” It’s a It’s an unnerving I remember the first time I drove the the the oval
there and I hated every minute of it. I just did not like it at all. Now, at the time, I was in a Golf R, so the the body roll and the
weight being so high uh in that car did not help the situation. But even when we did it just a couple of months ago in the
Cayman, it’s just not a sensation that that I enjoy. And mad props to any of the pro drivers. It gives you a whole
new experience for, you know, the whether it’s NASCAR driving, you know, Daytona, Tallaladega, uh, the IMSA guys
that run there, the Indie guys at, you know, that go around the Indianapolis 500 flat at they enter those corners at
238 miles an hour. Like, no thank you. Yeah. I I noticed that your strategy was
to stay sort of low on the track and go around. So, I actually I only did two laps that time. I did the first one. I ran high
the entire way around and when I when I was the second lap when I was coming into turn three, I was like a quarter of
a second behind where I was at that point the lap prior. So I thought, “All right, well, let me go low here and see
what happens.” I went low and it was about 3/10en of a second slower that way. So I just thought, “All right, I’m
just going to run the high line.” Yeah. And a lot of people say they want to run the high line because if
something happens, there’s a wall there. They can just slide along the wall. I mean, the impact would be less, I guess,
if you only had 5T between you and what you were hitting versus like 30 ft. That’s logical. I’d rather not hit anything.
Correct. Um, let’s talk a little bit about you uh driving the pace car with Far.
What is that like? I know you said you had some interesting stories. Yeah. I’d like to hear those.
Yeah. Heraldo, as you know, is the guy that’s raci. Yeah. Yeah. And he’s an he’s an interesting
guy. He is in my ear or you know I don’t use earphones because I got to hear a lot of things.
Yeah. You got a radio? I got a radio and I and I’m keying the radio and driving and I’m mostly thank
heavens in a DCT I’m I’m in the automatic mode so I can still get around
the corners without too much effort. Um but he’s coaching me the whole time.
We’re going to do three and four and then you’re going to come in the pits and then they’re going to start the race. You got to maintain so much speed.
We’d like you to speed it up, slow it down on track. The interesting times comes when we deviate. So, and this can
happen anywhere. I mean, this can happen at Sebring or at Homestead. I remember uh one of the deviations at Homestead
because we rarely use one and two. There’s something about those corners. I think because they actually go uphill,
they don’t want us on that surface as much unless there’s something that’s really blocking the track. So he tells
me at the last second, go high. Go on one and two. NASCAR one and two. The old
NASCAR one and two. And I’m going between the pylons laid out to keep people from going on one and two.
But he tells me that good job. So I’m up on the banking in one and two. The rest
of the field is going through one and two like everybody else. The infield.
Infield. The good thing is the cars that were kind of stuck are now rolling. So I
come down and I and I go very low on at at uh two and I pick up the entire field
perfectly going down the back straight. Now this is like almost like co a coincidence a chance. And I don’t know
if Heraldo has it organized that way or not, but I’m I’m kind of panicky the
whole time. What’s he telling me to do now? Fascinating. Oh, he’s he’s a master when it comes to orchestrating the whole
thing. Well, and I I there is a trust. I mean, obviously when a guy’s telling you on the radio to do something, you’re kind
of going, “Oh, yes.” Yeah. And sometimes he says, “Did you understand me? Did you you know, cuz
you’re busy, wait, let me key the mic.” So I he you know the other one at Sebring was we had
to go pick up the field and I don’t remember exactly what had happened but I was at trackout ready to pick up the
field and he told me that there was a that people were uh thinking they were going to go into the pits. So he had me
go backward down the straight at Sebring. I’m against the flow of the racetrack as fast as I can go. I did a
Uturn you know in a short order. So you’re coming out of
Yeah. No, the front straight and the front straight where one is. Where one is. Yeah. Underneath the tunnel. I
go out on track and I just nail it as far hard as I can. I go down and I make a a quick U-turn. It wasn’t a sliding
one, but it was pretty darn tight because I they wanted the field to see that I was on the track, not in the
pits. Gotcha. So I went like I have never been backward on a track
unless I was spinning. That had to be very unnerving. It was You just have to trust the guy
like crazy. Yeah. At least you know you had an eye in the sky. He he knew
where the cars were that they weren’t already coming around 16. So you could get into trouble or even so like that’s got going in the
wrong direction at se you know. I’m just following instructions at that point kind of
blindly. Have you seen any like any crazy incidents from the rearview mirror in the pace car?
No. Anything crazy happen? Um uh no, not really in the rearview mirror. I would say the the craziest things is when some of the hot rods
people that aren’t normally in the leads uh they start passing me just to warm up
their tires. Okay. And you know, of course, the pace car is not supposed to be that close to the competition vehicles and that’s what
happens there. But but most of the time it it and it can be really boring too, Carlos, because you know, you’re sitting
at like the night races. Remember those we did? Yeah. When was that? The Enduros. The Enduros at night. So, you know, you
start the the field and there’s and the cars dwindle down over the enduro period
of time and you’re literally parked the entire time. You never move because
no incidents happen where they want to pay a safety car out on course. Well, I mean nowadays, you know, you have your
you have a smartphone, you can at least sit there and watch some YouTube videos or something, you know. Well, you’re paying attention, but you
know, some of the if you have a radio, sometimes if there’s a a big enough break, you can, you know, get out of the
car, stretch your legs, and get back in again, you know, and you know, there’s corner workers there obviously, so
people are talking to you a little bit. And the far does live streaming on most of the the races, so I imagine you could
probably just sit there and watch the race from your phone. And you know, Sebring’s really bad because I can’t see anything. The wall is right there.
Yeah. At pit out, but Homestead, you’re looking at turn one and you can see the cars going through.
Talk to me a little bit about um and I don’t want to keep harping on your age, but I I want to I want to drive the
point home because you can still do this at a high level, you know, and I think it’s encouraging
for, you know, people that are either retiring or close to retiring. you can still do some pretty cool stuff. How
does how does staying active in HPDE track days, how how do you maintain that
sharpness, you know, to to keep pace with Mike? It’s actually a bigger
question because the big question is I think if you have you’re enthusiastic
I don’t care if you’re enthusiastic about puzzling or you’re enthusiastic about your love
life but as long as you’re enthusiastic about motor racing or your car hobby in
any way or motorcycleycling whatever it is those are the things that keep you young involved.
you know, when a track day happens, you know, I go early. I go I go to Sebring on Friday night, right?
You know, I’m there. I do, but I’m not a I’m much Mike’s out there walking the course on
Friday night, you know. I love that trackw walk. It’s fantastic. I learned a lot from it,
right? Yeah. No, it’s honestly I I learned so much. I had the pleasure of of attending track walks um with some
incredibly talented professionals. Uh so I think it’s a great way to give back. you know, the people that are doing it with me think that I know what I’m
talking about where all I’m doing is just regurgitating um you know, what the Rainy Propes of the Worlds have said.
So, yeah. No, I love it. It’s a great experience. So, so my trackw walk experience is kind of interesting because um I’ve walked
several tracks. The last one I try to do a new track every year. This year I did uh Barber.
There was no opportunity because they have a jity that goes around on the track. Um the the I did uh the firm uh
last year and I did Kota the year before that. We’re going to go to the firm later this year with far.
Yeah, that’ll be fun. Did you like the farm? I did. I did. They changed some of the tiny turns there and
there was a a big curb curbing that we’re going to not have to deal with. So, I think it’s improved on our on our
side. You you’ve got you’ve got me worried about uh our superlap series that uh you’ve got some experience at a
track that I’ve never been to before. I’m going to have to work extra hard that weekend. Well, have you ever been to Kota?
Because my I got there after driving 500 miles on the last day, which by the way blows my mind. He
drives his car to the racetracks. Even Kota, right? Would you do that in your car?
No. No. Yes. Right. Correct. Homestead is I was going to say no way.
So we we and I just drove to Barber 12-hour days, you know, 12 hours 800
miles one way and 800 miles 12 hours back the other way. But um and there’s stories on that we
have to talk about. But the I tried to I I went I was there after 500 miles. I got my bicycle out of the car. My
brother’s there with his E36 M3. So we’re competing in a BMW CCA time trial
and and there’s a big eclectic group of cars there. Teslas are in my class, right? So, we decide, okay, we’re going
to walk the course. So, we start I I’m in my little bicycle and I start
pedaling out of the pit lane. I get about I would say a third of the way up
that first hill into turn one and I am out of gas. Just turn around and coach.
There is no way I’m going to pedal up that hill. So, I start walking and pushing my bike
up and I’m about now 2/3 up. Oh my goodness. How am I going to get, you know, I’ve been barber?
This is a Kota. A Kota. So, I’m Well, yeah. Yeah. It’s It’s straight up. So, you
know, I’m I’m really struggling to get that little What does the bike weigh? You know, not very much, but by the time
I got to the top, it weighed 400 lb. So, you know, and this is after driving all
day basically in the car to get there. So, I had no idea how fatigued I was just sitting in the car and driving. But
when you get to the top of the hill, you can coast quite a ways. So, we coasted down and thank heavens there were was
probably about six or eight of us and uh there was a pickup truck, a track truck
following us to make sure that you know we didn’t do anything stupid or fall or
get hurt. So, anyway, the guy he watched me and he said, “Hey, would you you you want to get in the truck and I’ll put
your bike in the back?” And I said, “That sounds really good. I think I’ll watch the rest of the track.” We did
that at Sebring. I know. You have to come and rescue us at turn 16 cuz it was dark out. We did that at Sebring during Mike’s
trackw walk and uh we were talking about it before and he’s like, “You know what? It wouldn’t be a bad idea if you were
just kind of hanging out in in in your truck and because it’s going to be we we weren’t sure what time it was going to
end, but it’s close to 4 miles and so we ended up shortening it up a little bit
and people would just jump in the back of my truck and then we would kind of shorten it up by by them riding in the
truck the the long straights basically. Yeah. Yeah. Good idea. It’s probably still a good idea for sure. And of
course, we’ve had the the track tours in our past where people just a piled in cars and did that. I know there’s
limitations from the track on that, but those those are, you know, track walks I think are really really valuable and
there’s no giving that up. I’m just really happy that you’re doing it and I’ll and I’ll uh from my hotel room,
I’ll be cheering you on. Just wave as we walk by. Turn. Fortunately, one of our Fortunately, one
of our regular uh participants provides me with an adult beverage. Uh so that that helps me get around.
That’s good. Um let’s talk about the Super Lab Series. FAR Super Lab Series,
you’re still competing at a very high level. Um and just to draw the the
point, drive the point home, the last time that the three of us competed was last year at the Race of Champions with
Farah in the SL2 class. And I got the results here just boy because I want to
emphasize just this was not a walk in the park by any means. Uh Mike Moore
came in first with a a minute 36.1. I came in with a minute 36.5 and you
were just behind with a minute 37.6. Um and these are these are fast times
for street cars. Now granted, hold on before you say anything. Let the record
show that only two of the three of us are driving street cars. So to drive my my point home, yes, my
car is gutted. The the M3 is gutted. It’s probably lost a good 300 lb, maybe
a little more from its factory, you know, setting. You’re out there in a
4,000lb car and and you’re just behind us. That’s incredible to me. Like you’re
still driving and competing at a high level. Thank you. Yeah, I would say of all of the of all of the S people that drive
SLS, I I am constantly amazed by by David. Like the first time that we went out there, I was just like, you know, I
think we had met once or twice, right? And and I’m just like, all right, here’s some old dude in a four-door
sedan and it’s freaking orange. Like, all right, whatever. Right. Exactly. I’m just like, I knew that you were going to
be tough competition, but I sort of didn’t even didn’t even think about that. He wasn’t in your right. Exactly. I was like, “All right, it’s going to
come down to me and Carlos.” And, you know, we go, we we end the first session and, you know, I take out the lap timer and I’m just like, “Holy cow, this guy’s
like 3/4 of a second behind me. How in the hell is this possible?” So, can absolutely wheel a car like very few
people can. Yeah. So, there was a survey here on this podcast, a survey of
what are the cars that you thought were the slowest or the ones that didn’t do very well,
worst cars for the track. Worst cars for the track. And your choice was Oh, it was like a Dodge Challenger RT or
something. Oh, yes. That Well, yes. Mustang. That was the worst driver. That was the worst driver, but right.
Well, and then your guest, I can’t remember who it is, right? Trevor, probably. Uh,
he talked about either Trevor or Jerry. Jerry, I think it was Jerry. So, Jerry says
sedans, big sedans. BM big BMW sedan. And I’m like, oh, I’m gonna as soon as I get a chance, I’m
going to talk about a little chat with Jerry. There you go. microphones you.
So, no. Yeah, I I’m also in amazement. Um the cool thing about last year and I
honestly I miss that season. Um we the three of us just kept getting faster
through the season and as you got faster, I got faster. You got faster. Like it wasn’t a walk in the park.
No, it was great. We had a we had a great time. I missed that competition. Um still have it with with uh Dave, but
you know, since you had to chicken out and leave our our group, things haven’t been the same. And and Dave, you you
changed it up a little bit. I did. You got your tires. I put 315s on the back and 285s on the
front. I hope the heck they make a difference. We’re we’re going to find out soon. I’m all about the braking, unfortunately.
And and your car stops way better. Well, yeah, but with that much extra rubber, you know, you’re you’re you’re bound to be able to go 5 foot deeper
maybe, you know, and I mean, we’re so close that there’s not much between us, so if you can scrape even a half a
second. The thing that I love about competing with you is I have to I have to drive a really great
lap. You know, if I drive a good lap, I’m not going to win. And that’s what I
love sharing the track with you. Well, it’s very hard for me to accept not winning. Yes.
Well, you are a two-time champion, national champion. It is very hard for me to accept not winning. Even the autocross that I did
on Sunday, I was fifth. I was the fastest Porsche, but you know, still. But I gotta tell you that it’s an honor
to to know you and see you your driving and the skills you have and go, “Well,
you know, Mike is good.” So, it’s it’s really a compliment uh that that you
know, chief instructor, you know, the tracks very well. You’re you’re doing a fantastic job. And it only makes sense
that all of us can can continue to get faster and faster, especially with some
of the really neat things you’re doing to your car. What do you mean? I mean JRZ and you
know this is stuff the rest of us may follow suit. Well I think the problem there is if you
don’t have the talent you just have to throw money and parts to get faster. So that’s the challenge with Carlos.
You got to do whatever you have to. Yeah. And now now throw money at the problem. I don’t know what the Corvettes are
doing but they’re streaming crashing. That’s what they’re poor. Come on man.
Poor Ralphie. Friends. We’re friends with Ralphie. Rafie. We love you buddy. Um, let’s talk about how the sport keeps
you young. So, uh, you know, I think having enthusiasm when I get to the track, uh,
you know, I I make a mental I don’t write anything down anymore after all these times of doing it. But I make a I
go through my mental checklist. I go through a mental checklist when I’m at the track. You know, what do I have to
do? Make sure the tires are right, my belts are secure. Uh, I I just use a lap
belt, you know, as I showed Mike one time. Um, so you know, having all your stuff with you, the stuff you bring in
case, making sure you’re hydrated. We talk about that a lot. Those are those mental notes. Plus, you know, that
that’s exciting. I have a I have a an agenda. I’m busy with it. And then I get
to drive my car to the racetrack. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that we
haven’t really, you know, done a deep dive in and I leave it for another show, but I do want to talk about it and
that’s when you’re driving out there, whether it’s racing or just, you know, competing in the Super Lab Series or
just doing high performance driving, you’re only thinking about one thing, and that’s driving.
You better be only thinking about one thing. Yeah. There is no time or space in your mind to be thinking about, did I take
the clothes out of the dryer? What’s my wife doing? There is none of that. And I think I think that is mentally so
therapeutic. I would imagine that that’s it’s honestly like a vacation. Yes, it
is. It’s like a mini vacation. And I mean that in the most serious way. So if you have, you know, something planned,
whether it’s an autocross on a Sunday or track weekend, you know, this is like
you you’re from the time I leave the house and head up to Sebring on Friday, I am not thinking about work issues at
home or anything. It’s just clearly I’m focused on what I’m going to do in the
future. What’s the next move? What am I going to get ready for? Um, what would be an some advice that you would give
older drivers that are maybe thinking about getting into the sport? You know, maybe somebody that’s close to
retirement or anything like that. What would be your advice to them? Well, I I I think there’s something we’ve maybe Mike and I have touched on
in the past, and that is people need to make sure they’re healthy. We’ve had some situations where we had
people that didn’t feel well or they cut their day short. You know, Carlos, it it you and it it goes for everyone and we
don’t have any requirements like that. However, you get an FIA license or an SECA license. You have to have an annual
physical or and I don’t even know what the requirements are anymore, but you know, I go to the doctor twice a year. I
make sure I get my annual physical. I’m checked out. I know my numbers are good. Uh, and everybody needs to to do that
when an older person or somebody you know your age Wow. This was this was going so well
until that moment. Yeah. But no, it’s it’s a good point, right? You need to be honest with yourself. Yeah. Right. This is not easy. But that being said, you
know, to your question, if you’ve got somebody that hey, they’re they’re celebrating their retirement, so they just went out and bought whatever their
dream car was, you know, if you’re going to come out there for one day, you’re a beginner. Yeah. You’re going to sort of
drive around at 710. I mean, yes, obviously still good to still good to be in in good physical condition, but you
know, not as taxing as what we do when you’re out there pushing nine tents, you know, as requires the the cool shirts
and that. Well, and and you know, physical condition and being healthy are to me a little bit different because I don’t do
any conditioning. My conditioning comes from motorcycle riding and you know, my
activity, sorry. and and and those are things that I want to make sure that that people understand is that it’s
really about your just your general health. Yeah. Um the other thing about older people as
they get into the sport is they have to have their mind open to learning. Yes. And that maybe is the other thing we’ve
seen where uh you know the neurosurgeon buys his Z06 Corvette and you know he
knows he’s got a fast car and he’s going to be driving it fast and you know and and sometimes that turns into be a
problem, right? Especially if you’ve got an instructor that is a 22-year-old kid,
you know, if you’re a neurosurgeon, if you just retired um and sold your tech company for $10 million and bought your
dream car and come out there, you’re probably not used to listening to 22-year-old kids. Um so that can become
a problem. Yeah. No, we’ve never had an issue like that. No, never. You don’t have issues with primadanas at
the track. Interesting point, though. I and I like that that uh we we have to think about how people are going to respond to their
instructor. So sometimes we do have to match people up for other reasons other
than, you know, we got an instructor handy. Absolutely. For sure. All right. As always, we always run out
of time and I don’t want to run out of time before doing our rapid fire questions. Okay. So, let’s get into that. And we have a
little bit of time left afterwards. I got a few other questions that I want to jump into. We got 10 rapid fire
questions. These should really take five minutes, but for some reason like are they a discussion uh you know group
like this? They shouldn’t be like my goal now is for them to be like five minutes. If we can go through 10
questions in five minutes, like I think that’s the goal now. We’ve gotten much I think it was like 20 minutes in episode one. So the fact that
we’ve cut it in half, we’re much better at it now than we used. We’re not going to be able to make fun of it soon because it actually is going to get to your goal.
No. So rapid fire questions. Here we go. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. Some of these aren’t going to be
apply applicable to you. This is the second episode in a row that you’re keeping me out of the rapid fire section.
I draft this to our guest. All right, here we go. More dangerous turn 17 at
Sebring or the average HPDE students student in a GT3.
You’re completely missing out on the rapid fire portion of the test. Rapid fire. Rapid fire. Okay. The GT3. Yeah.
Yeah, for sure. I love turn 17 at CBR. I don’t think there’s anything to be afraid of if you know your way around. And I’ve seen crashes there from a
safety’s car standpoint. So, you know, people go right off and 17. It’s frightening.
I’ve seen what happens when brakes fail that. Well, yes, it’s you’re going into that turn at 130,
140. Well, and then the question always has that caveat in a GT3. How many nannies
does this guy have on? So, you know, we probably should qualify that. And also, are they are they the average HPDE
driver, which is We’re already going way too far into this question. Let’s go into number two,
manual or PDK? I’m a PDK guy. PDK. I know yours. Manual for driving pleasure, PDK for lap
time. Smart answer. Uh, number three, autocross or HPDE?
I know that’s tough for you. It’s tough for me, but I would say HPDE wins out because the time on track is is
so different. Oh yeah. And autocross, you know, you’re talking I did five laps and the time I got was
uh uh 40 well less than 40 seconds each lap. Yeah. So, how much time did I spend the whole
day? Right. You’re out there working on working on your craft. You haven’t done autocross, so we’ll skip that question for you. Okay. Number
four. Best M3 model. Best M3.
Well, I’d have to say unfortunately for me the E90 is probably the best M3 model. I I love the F80. I think it
offers a lot of things that you don’t get in your car. Um, and I’m always surprised that it works so well.
However, my personal favorite was my Z4M coupe. Yeah, I remember that car.
Silver. I I’m not a silver guy, but I did nothing to that car. I didn’t even change the shocks. I put tires on it and
did lap after lap after lap. No failures, no brake issues, nothing. It
was a quite incredible thing. All right, number five. Instructor seat or pace car seat?
Pace car seat. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I mean, I like instructing, but
the pace car seat is, you know, you’re kind of like tense the whole time, but you’re in way more control.
I I’m in That makes sense. Except for the guy in the radio telling you, “Hey, this time go through NASCAR one and two. Don’t do
it.” I’m the guy with my hands on the wheel. Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, number six. We’re going to play the game
date, marry, or kill. But this is going to be the car edition. Okay. Are you familiar with that game?
No, but I’ll play along. Okay. Usually you three characters, you choose one to date, one to marry, and
one to kill. We’re going to play that with the cars, though. Name three different car brands you would daily,
track, and watch burn. Mike, I’ll start with you because you’ve already seen these questions.
Um, yes. So, track is going to be a boring answer. I’m obviously going with Porsche because that’s all I’ve Well,
that’s what I love to track. Which one are you daily? Uh, I am dailying a I I am dailying just
because one of my friends just got one. It’s phenomenal. So, if you’re going to daily something, it either needs to be an SUV or a wagon for, you know, daily
duty stuff. Uh, a friend of mine just got an E63 AMG wagon that is absolutely
spectacular. So, you’d go with a Mercedes? I’m I’m going with that specific Mercedes um for uh for dailying and the
Are you burning? I am burning the car that I drove here in which is a Tesla. It is everything
about it is awful. And honestly, because it’s a Tesla, I figured there’s a 7%
chance it is actually on fire in the parking lot right now. And nothing would make me happier than if I left the
studio and it was a smoldering pile of metal. Okay, Dave. Well, you know, I I despise Miatas. I
can’t get in them. They’re uncomfortable for me. So, is that the one you would burn? I would burn a Miata. Oh my god.
I would burn. I know. I’m gonna get a lot on fire. Clip worthy right now. Tell me more.
You know, every time Mike says, “Hey, will you would do a check ride with this guy? He’s got a Miata.” I’m like, “Oh my
god, I’m going to have to figure out if I put my helmet on before I get in the car or after I get in the car and where my
knees are going to be. Are they going to be in my cheeks, in my face?” To be clear, I just do that to make you extra
tired so that you don’t perform well up against me. So that’s the only reason I do that. I have ulterior motives for that.
Are are they fantastic cars? Yes. But I, you know, they’re not for me. I would burn it.
You will burn a Miata. Got it. A track car. I I have a uh daily and track. Daily. I I just picked up a uh the
oddest car. It’s a I would call it a car. It’s a Ford Maverick. So it’s got a
2 L turbo, an 8-speed transmission. It is so carlike. And I get it’s a truck,
but it’s like a car. It’s got independent suspension. It’s got pretty good brakes. I’m so comfortable in it.
It’s by far my daily I’m a GT3 guy. I would love to have a
late model GT3. I still like a 4 L six-cylinder versus anything else that
you can get your hands on. So that it’s pretty easy. Okay. So I would um the obvious daily um
probably BMW. have always been a BMW uh owner. Track any 911. I think uh burn.
The first one that I thought of was Tesla, but you already took that answer. The second one, for whatever reason, I
don’t know why I have nothing against this car, but it came to mind. Subaru. Yeah.
So, we’ll burn that one. Okay. Number seven. Um, who would you rather battle for one last lap? Mike Moore or your
younger self? Mike Moore. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Just because he knows he
doesn’t stand a chance against his younger self. Is that what you’re trying to insinuate over there? Maybe. Yeah, that it would be fun. Yeah.
All right. Number eight. Is there ever a good reason to lift midc corner?
Well, I mean, if you’re getting ready to under steer into a wall, I would suggest that there are reasons to lift midc corner.
No doubt. And especially with the, you know, some of the cars I’ve driven, they require it. So, you’re hot in, you’re
lifting, and you’re hot out. Okay. Uh, no doubt about it. I mean, certainly you don’t want to do it too abruptly, otherwise you end up
doing what I did in turn one in Sebring, which almost ended very well. So, it it it you know, there’s that’s when I
learned what the term lift off over steer meant, and it’s not good. All right, number nine. Two minutes left. If
you had a daily Sorry. If you had to daily a Miata with eyelashes on the
headlights, you seen those? Yeah. Or a slammed BMW with no bump stops, what are you driving? Oh, I’m driving
the BMW because we already discussed this on one of one of the previous questions. We already
I love the car. I mean, with the eyelashes, I could Mike and I could probably get one long enough. You know, we need the L
version. Well, I’m riding I’m riding a shotgun with you cuz I’m also not riding around in a Miata with eyelashes on the
windows, on the headlights, rather. Well, that’s another thing. All right. Uh my favorite question of
this segment. You have five seconds to offend a Porsche fan. What do you say?
BMWs are way faster. Now, I love that because many times when
I’m on track, just in an HPDE, and a guy has a GT4, my BMW actually out
accelerates them. So, if they are on a straightaway and they don’t enter correctly or, you know, leave the
straightaway correctly, I can pass them on the straightaway in a F80 M3. Right.
So, but because I have the horsepower, I just don’t have the staying power in the corners. So, it depends on the guy’s
experience. Mike, you have to offend a Porsche owner or fan. What do you say? I would say uh Oh, do you take it to the
track or did you just buy it to go to Cars and Coffee? Oh, nice. Good one. It’s a good one.
Which is sadly too many Porsche worthy of a clip. There is one in Weston on Saturday.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, maybe. All right, we’ll talk the show. Maybe we’ll meet. All right, guys. Uh we’re going to wrap this up real quick. Um, the next
segment, which has to be 30 seconds, um, is our guest challenge. Okay? So, I
challenge you, we challenge you to challenge two of your friends to come on the podcast. So, this is your chance to
to challenge two of your friends. You can look right in the camera and tell them who are you challenging.
Uh, I am going to challenge. It got to be really quick, huh?
Yeah. I think we need to have your brother on. He was a great guy. Yes, I agree. I think my brother would be a great guy.
I’m gonna go with Mark Schneer. Okay. And um the guy that I like is Chris
Howard. Chris Howard is a fast driver. He’s got a well-prepared M2. Uh he was the
fastest guy at the autocross on Sunday. I think he would be a good guy to because he’s only done one HPDE.
And if I’m not mistaken, he did very well. Like even after at the end of just the first session, the first day, if I’m
not mistaken, his I think we signed him. Yeah. His instructor said, “Yeah, he’s good to go solo after his first day.”
Nice. All right, there you go. Challenge has been laid down by Dave. Uh, if you’re interested in coming on to the
podcast, go to the website. It is off theracing.com. Fill out the form and let
us know when you want to come in. Thank you guys. That’s all the time that we have for the episode. It’s been a pleasure,
Dave, getting to know you even more after 20 years. Uh, remember, everything interesting
happens off the racing line. See you guys next time.
Happens off the racing line. I took the hard road I burn these stripes. The road
from dreamer a driver ain’t always straight. Kill my head down. Fueled by
faith. I lost some time but found my name. Pressure made a diamond out of me.
I’ve arrived and I brought receipts for my truth between the stars and his peace. This
ain’t your love. I’ll burn this seat off the racing line where my story begins.
