Some people know coast to coast racing from the movies, but what’s the real story? A secret illegal underground race from coast to coast. It’s a race against time.
>> He ising flying, man.
>> Welcome to Off the Racing Line. I am your host Carlos Espitia and with me this time around is Jonathan Salerno. I almost forgot [laughter] your last name. It’s been so long since you’ve been here.
>> I know it’s been long. You’re stepping in for Mike because Mike had other issues to attend to, particularly the the Dolphins. I somehow more important than this podcast
>> somehow.
>> So, uh so thank you for stepping in.
>> Of course.
>> Uh appreciate you being here. We got an awesome awesome show today.
>> Looking forward to it.
>> We actually this is there’s a lot of first first time for you as a co-host.
>> Yeah. Uh, our guest today is our first repeat guest and he happens to be the first guest ever on the show and that is David Maher.
>> David, welcome back.
>> Thank you. I’m still trying to figure out why this is going to be such a great show today.
>> Because you’re here and you have such a great story to [laughter] tell. You know, the first time that you were here, um,
>> we told a few stories, but we didn’t dive into the specifics of the Cannonball Run. And I really want to dive into that because the more I reviewed it, I reviewed the book, it was just the details are fascinating and I just we did not give it justice. And so I want to dive into that. Now, before we do that, I do want to mention that you were scheduled to come in for our one-year anniversary, and you missed that for an interesting reason.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> You were skiing.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I had a I had a little fall skin and I I whacked my head, which isn’t good considering my head is patched together with mesh and titanium. [laughter]
>> Yeah.
>> Um and um yeah, I lost some sensation in my hand. And
>> you have a nice scar.
>> Got a new disc in my neck. That was that was May 8th.
>> So hopefully we have enough time to dive into that into your Neo brushes with with death.
>> Yeah, I’m like Humpty Dumpty.
>> You’ve had multiple uh somehow you’re still here and I’m glad that you’re still here. So, let’s dive into it. Um we’re going to talk about the Cannibal Run. It’s the ultimate underground race. One of the fun facts that I discovered as I was doing research for the show is the name The Cannibal Run actually came from what was his name?
>> Irwin Cannonball Baker.
>> That’s right. Back in 1914, he ran coast to coast in a motorcycle and then he did it in 1915 in a vehicle, which is crazy when you think about 1915. There was there was no interstate, nothing like that. Just dirt roads with Eisenhower.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you remember how long it took him to do it?
>> I want to say 270 hours on the motorcycle. Something around there.
>> Okay. 11 days basically. 11 days, right? which is wild.
>> Imagine that, right? There’s there’s no like gas stations in every corner like we have now, you know? So,
>> I’m assuming had perfect weather all the way through.
>> Who knows? So, anyway, so that’s where we get the the name Cannibal Run. Now fast forward uh you know almost a decade later you know well 70 80 you know years later the record was uh broken in 1983 and it was actually set 32 hours and 7 minutes and it was done in a Ferrari 308
>> Magnum PI style.
>> Yes. You and Alex Roy decided we can do that. We can do better. Walk us through that.
>> Well as a matter of fact I’d never decided that. Um, it
>> was all Alex’s idea.
>> So, at the time, the closest thing to the Cannonball Run was the Gumball 3000, Max Cooper’s, you know, 7-day road rally party, um, where they choose destinations. And they he had just started that, I think,
>> right around 2020, 2001. You can check me on that. I don’t know. Um, but the guys from Jackass, which was popular at the time, Ben Marger and Ryan Dunn were part of it. Yeah,
>> you know, it’s like you see all these crazy supercars and back then, you know, it was like [snorts]
>> the reason the Cannonball Run movie was was so great
>> was because you got to see a Lamborghini on full tilt like
>> social media anywhere and like live down in South Florida, you see Lamborghinis everywhere, but at the time you you never saw Lamborghini in person like ever.
>> Um, so watching that movie and watching those cars was like
>> the coolest thing when I was growing up in my teenage years. So, um
>> yeah, that movie had everything. So, it had exotic vehicles, it had greatl looking women, and they were breaking laws, [laughter]
>> right?
>> Um yeah. Um and slapstick humor stuff, too. But
>> um and then that was also followed up by the um the um the Gumball, which was um the C cobra and the the Ferrari racing across country.
>> Yeah. Um, [clears throat] and so I grew up on those movies. And so seeing this Gumball 3000, 3,000 Miles, you know, it was like, how do I get involved?
>> Um,
>> and I just, it was sort of a pipe dream for me. But um so my girlfriend at the time knew a girlfriend of Alex at the time and my girlfriend told me that um Alex Roy was looking for a co-driver to go on the rally with and he was interviewing some people and I didn’t know this guy and um so I I I met him on the Upper East Side and we had a dinner and and I guess I guess I passed his interview because because we went we did the Gumball on 03 together.
>> Yeah. Um,
>> what [clears throat] was that interview process like?
>> Hey, you want to do crazy [ __ ] [laughter]
>> No, it was just, you know, it was just kind of getting comfortable with the whole shtick that is Alec Roy. Um, and we had dinner.
>> He’s very eccentric.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, he whipped out his laptop, was telling me other people that he, you know, sort of interviewed for this, you know, to be a co-driver. And the main thing is like who can really stomach sitting in a car with Alex Roy for six, seven days? It’s a lot. Um
>> Yeah. I mean, not to mention, you know, burying the needle in in the car.
>> Yeah. You had to trust you had to trust the person, too. Yes. And um but anyway, it was
>> um and so at the time I had to pay like 6,000 bucks for it for
>> really.
>> And now it’s like a hundred grand to enter or something. So I’ve heard I don’t know. It’s just too rich for my blood these days. But um so we did that together and man we had fun. It was like it was like the best six day rolling vac. It was like Ferrari F50 which I got to ride in for 100 miles going into San Antonio. Like
>> just a Koenigseg was like I’ never even heard of a Koenigseg before. Yeah.
>> Um and one guy had that thing up 248 milesPH or something.
>> This is this is the the gumball though.
>> This is the gumball, right?
>> So that’s how I met Alex Roy is doing the gumball. Um and that was 03. Um, and we remained friends, you know, he was had his loft in Soho and it was a, you know, it was a late night spot, you know, to to go hang out. Um, and so we stayed in touch and we were friendly after that that drive. And so, um, cut to a few years later, he calls me down to his his apartment and, um, he tells me he’s got one of these Pulitzie bomber jackets. And I’m like, cool. um [laughter] when I’m going to wear that. But um it’s actually funny. Some some people really really do like that style of clothing, interchangeable patches and stuff, but it was a weird um clothing line for me. I was like I was excited to get a jacket anyway. Felt like I was in the fold.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
>> and then he he calls me over to his computer and he starts telling me all about he’s showing me all these times every year that the times that people achieved in the cannonball. And then he gets to 1983 and 32 hours 7 minutes.
>> Yeah.
>> Like, wow, that’s crazy.
>> Um, and he goes, “We did a recon run and we did it in 34 hours.” And then him and his other friend, John Goodrich, um, they did that run with Corey Wells in the background and, um, in the back seat. And [clears throat] so they realized it was feasible having done it in 34 hours. And so now they were going to go and try and push and and break through 207. And they made it to Oklahoma. They stopped for um one of the the toll plazas and um and the car started bucking and um wouldn’t go and all of his gumballs that he had done from 03 0405 um driving in you know wherever the they go. like they traveled to different bunch different countries, North Africa.
>> Yeah. There’s different continents.
>> Yeah. So anyway, the what had happened was the the fuel pump and filter had got blockage in it and um they couldn’t go anymore.
>> And after that, John Goodrich um said he didn’t want to do it anymore.
>> Didn’t like the
>> the risk
>> the riskreward profile. Yeah.
>> Um
>> because it’s in it’s it’s not only, you know, a dangerous endeavor. You’re talking about from a legal standpoint.
>> Yeah. Well, listen. Back then, speeding was just speeding. Now it’s criminal.
>> Um,
>> so I was like, “So, you’re telling me you’ve done all this? You’ve taken two runs, trial runs, cross country, and tried to do it one time, and you didn’t do it, and now you’re calling me down here because you want me to do it with you.” I’m like,
>> like, I want you to go home and sleep on it. Don’t make any rash decisions.
>> Yeah.
>> I said yes before I made it to his front door.
>> Yeah. Um [clears throat] cuz I was like this is now I’m really doing the cannonball run. Um so that’s how that’s how I got involved in it.
>> Yeah.
>> This off the racing line episode is brought to you by CAE marketing.
>> In racing, the teams that win are not guessing. They’re using data, feedback, telemetry, [music] and constant refinement. The teams that refuse to adapt, they get left behind. In business, it’s no different. Most companies are still running digital marketing and SEO tactics from [music] 2015. CE Marketing helps businesses adapt with generative engine optimization, answer engine optimization, [music] and agentic AIdriven content systems built around real customer questions. Because the future of search will not reward companies [music] adding to the generic AI slot, it will reward the company’s AI understands, trusts, and recommends. Visit capeearketing.com and request your free AI visibility audit. CAERKing, adapt or get laughed. Okay, so let’s let’s talk about, you know, what that actually entails because for the people that don’t know, they they might think that this is just a race, you know, from coast to coast, from the from New York to LA, and it’s so much more than that. The the amount of planning that goes into it is really incredible. Um, and then I also want to dive into the machine that was chosen by by Alex, which was the E39 M5, the BMW 2000. um you guys had to really study weather patterns, uh traffic, you know, the history of traffic, when’s the best time to, you know, the lowest amount of traffic. [snorts]
>> So, I’ll start with that. Historically, the Cannonball Run was always held on um President’s Day weekend because the Monday is a [snorts] is a bank holiday, but the markets are open, so it’s not a really welltraveled holiday,
>> right? Um, and so if you leave um, New York at around 9 or 10 o’clock, you [snorts] know, 30 hours later, get you in to downtown LA at, you know, sometime in the morning on um, on a Monday, early Monday morning. And, um,
>> you’re leaving at night at New York.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> And then, so you get into LA at, you know, 1 2 3 and
>> Right. I can haul ass downtown LA at 1 2 3 a.m. on like a on a bank holiday weekend.
>> I had never thought about the logistics of the planning of traffic.
>> Oh, no. It’s crazy.
>> I I know. Like I understood it, but like the studying of it,
>> man, that’s next level.
>> It was it was I mean it was done in 1971.
>> Um
>> that’s when they picked to go. And also um you know it wasn’t too hot and it wasn’t too cold. If you go in October, there’s generally not a snow um snow coming in because there’s a northern route which take you through takes you through I7 through the mountains which is what the current record holders had done. Um so you generally don’t get snow there but you can. So um
>> but
>> so let’s talk about the the machine that was chosen. It wasn’t a flashy, you know, Ferrari [laughter] uh red Ferrari. It was the 2000 BMW uh E39 M5. Now, it still stuck out because the way that it was equipped with multiple antennas,
>> antennas, we had two uh painted stripes across the roof so that everything could spot us.
>> So, we’re going to get into that. So, basically what what they had is a a semi-reflective white um uh what do you call it? A stripe on the on the roof
>> decals that run
>> basically. So, they had a uh a spotter airplane so the the airplane would know who they were, you know, from from up there. So, um let’s talk about the gear cuz I and and we’re going to show some pictures later on uh in post about it, but the more that I looked into it, it was just it was fascinating. You know, this isn’t just a regular M5. The way it was equipped, you guys had thermal cameras. Yeah. before
>> this car wasn’t chosen for this run.
>> I was going to say, what made you land on an M5?
>> So, it was a car that Alex had always wanted and when they came out, he bought one. He had a 2000. So, you know, we used that car in 2006. But over the years of him doing the gumball, he um he had put a fuel cell in. He had put all the police countermeasures in, laser detectors, radar jammer. So he already had this car really well outfitted for this trip. I mean,
>> this is right the right tool for the job,
>> I think.
>> And it was it’s comfortable. It’s it’s a sedan.
>> We had a girl in the back seat running eight video cameras, Cory Wells, and you know, we had a spare tire back there. We had like, you know,
>> at the time I can’t think of a better vehicle to choose. It’s it’s a sedan, a V8, a lot of horsepower.
>> Yeah, it had 400 and something the Dan Dan chip in it. So,
>> cuz normally those cars were limited 155
>> for the era. It was a It was a fast car. A lot of horsepower. Was a fast car.
>> It was. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, let’s talk about some of the gear. Uh you guys had a equipped it with a thermal camera. It was mounted to the front bumper. What was the use for that?
>> So, um, and it had two screens, one for the passenger and one for the driver. [laughter]
>> Okay.
>> So, it was you could actually look at the screen while you’re driving this way.
>> Uhhuh.
>> And it gave you all the information you needed to drive at night.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, why do we have it?
>> Basically, so we could see cops like an engine idling in the center median or something like that
>> behind a billboard or behind bushes. Yeah,
>> you could spot the sign the heat signature
>> and also in case if we had to turn off all the lights, we had a brake light kill switch like
>> if we had to just turn the lights off, we could probably driven that thing with a thermal imaging cameras.
>> Was was wildlife ever like a concern?
>> Um
>> because I imagine thermal would help spotting wildlife, deer, and so on.
>> Well, it’s funny you say that. We were in Arizona and if you read uh the Brock Gates Cannonball book, they they talk about these jack rabbits in Arizona that that go out in the pavement because it absorbs all the heat
>> because it’s warm.
>> It gets cold as
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> It’s cold in the desert at night. This the the road attracts a lot of heat. So I was doing about 50 miles an hour and
>> Oh god, I can see
>> I was up for probably 35 40 hours at the time. And I’m like, you know, my vision was like blurred. My hands are like So anyway, I’m going I’m like, what? Whoa, rabbit. And I was like, um, and then so we went back on the thermal imaging camera to see it. And you can see this rabbit just like wow. Um, you can see him clear as day in thermal imaging camera.
>> Yeah.
>> Um,
>> went under the car.
>> Yeah. But actually that was the the only wildlife we we um
>> Wow.
>> we encountered. Um,
>> okay.
>> Jack wrap. Uh, other tools you guys used was the the V1 Valentine, the radar detector, which only helps um once you’re already caught, you know, it it lets you know that you’re busted.
>> Laser. Yes. For laser. Yes. But if you’re picking up a signal, um, you know, you can you can cancel out the
>> True. And this is 2006, so laser wasn’t widely used nationwide.
>> I still have a Valentine one. It me all the time.
>> Oh, yeah. It’s Is it still one of the the best radar detectors? For a while, it was
>> one that I got used to.
>> Yeah.
>> For for that trip.
>> Um and
>> um I’ve just always had them ever since.
>> Uh laser jammers. You guys had them in the front and in the rear.
>> Yeah.
>> And that’s in case you get, you know, you get tagged with the laser, it just jams the the signal. Correct.
>> Yeah. And um they had RA radar diffusers so that would buy a couple extra valuable seconds.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Man, that’s crazy.
>> But like we didn’t have the crowdsource police stuff like ways any like then we didn’t have any of that.
>> True.
>> We’re using Blackberries. [laughter]
>> True. Yeah. Uh you had a anti-photo license plate cover.
>> Well, we did have that. We I mean we sat around and brainstormed all kinds of stuff like you know
>> possible scenarios
>> and you know stuff but um you know ultimately it was all kind of overkill.
>> Yeah. The you you guys also had three police scanners. How important were those?
>> Um they were important. They picked up a lot of signals that was just like noise and like when I was driving I’m like I was shutting stuff off. I just want to focus on driving. Like
>> just take out the gyro stabilized binoculars and make sure you can spot a cop for me. We can deal with the rest. But
>> yeah, um
>> the the one time the police scanner really um was useful to us um
>> I had driven from Ohio to Oklahoma, two six-hour stance back to back because we could hold about 30 gallons of fuel and that would get us about 600 miles. Mhm.
>> So it was Ohio to Oklahoma, one fuel stop. Um [clears throat] 1,200 miles and um and after that I was I was flying.
>> So let’s talk about that. You guys going into this already knew that to break the record you had to average.
>> I we had to average um 89.9 or something was the uh 3207,
>> right? And like we average like 90.1,
>> right? So to to put that in perspective, it basically like it it’s counting your stops, you know, every time that you the car is basically at an hour. Yeah. Refilling anything like that. Like it’s taking into account all those things. So to average, you know, 90 91 92 miles an hour, like that is significant. Um which means you’re usually not traveling 92 93 mph. Well, this was the flaw in Alex’s thinking. He wanted to drive around 93 94 miles an hour and never think he had to go much over 100. And I’m like, “No, you need to go as fast as you can when you
>> combine average. There’s a lot of zero way to do it.” Like, are you going to halfass this? You got this is a race against the clock. We’re going to race like
>> Yeah. Yeah. And you know, there’s a a thing in that was captured pretty well in the movie where he’s going through all these speeds that he had done to, you know, was like, where are you like really honking? Where are you really just pedal to the metal? Yeah. And
>> he’s like, “Yeah, [snorts] we didn’t really go much above 100 for any big stretch like that.” And I’m like, “Well, I plan on changing that was what I said to him.” And um
>> because you have to.
>> Yeah. and David De and Doug Turner who had the red Ferrari in ‘ 83, they said, you know, they had three speeds. Um they said speed limit when you had to if it was a cop or something like that.
>> Yeah.
>> Um they said like 143 miles an hour, which was the fastest they could go without the the temperature of the car overheating, right?
>> And zero when you’re stopped,
>> right? [laughter]
>> And you know, and a lot of people don’t recognize about having a car that can just ride comfortably at like 140 mph. You need to have a car that accelerates, too. Because if you’re slowing down to 60 and then speeding back up to 140 or 120, if you can do that speed differential in 3 seconds versus
>> 10 seconds, like you need you need a high horsepower car to do that and add up
>> and and those seconds add up to minutes and add up to 10 minutes and add up to 20 minutes and makes a difference to have a lot of horsepower. So I’m I’m curious on the on the topic of combined average speed was the conversation of
>> refueling while driving never never happened.
>> It was absolutely talked about.
>> I’m so curious because
>> but the feasibility I mean we were like yeah we were talking about like get a big van with a thing and just like get somebody out there with electric and like
>> but like
>> dangerous. [laughter]
>> But you know if you think about a Formula 1 pit stop
>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. They they go and they do a stop and they do 3 seconds tire change fuel and they’re back out. So if you’re just efficient at your fuel stops, they really don’t take up that much time.
>> Good point.
>> But [clears throat] also, I mean, we’ve seen those types of refueling done like in a a drift car. I think BMW broke the record for most consecutive drifting and they refueled that thing while it was still drifting.
>> You know, there’s there’s a lot of diminishing returns with that stuff, too. It’s like
>> Yeah.
>> Um but we thought about it. Yeah,
>> we I mean we talked about like everything and it was just like what’s the costbenefit analysis of like doing that and then you need to how are you going to time that properly? You know, when we got to um Oklahoma, that’s was that was where we were picking up Paul Weissman in the plane. Yeah.
>> And we had a projected, you know, 90 100 mph average, but I averaged 114 miles an hour from Ohio to Oklahoma. And we were so far I had a schedule that they were still sound asleep. Oh.
>> Um, [clears throat]
>> so and there was also a point when I read the book, um, I guess you were driving at that point where the plane was overhead that you guys were actually out running the plane. You’re you’re driving too fast.
>> Yeah. Paul said, um, I’m doing 125 knots of the ground here and you’re out running me. [laughter]
>> I mean, that plane could fly a lot faster than we could drive. Yeah.
>> Um the twin engine they I think they flew like an old like a single engine Cessna the first time and it just wasn’t fast enough.
>> So I’m I’m fascinated by I guess the the mentality that you have to have going into this, right? Because the preparation the the physical preparation is one thing. I know that there was there was talks about, you know, how do you mitigate having to go to the bathroom, you know, like how do you
>> how do you reduce those necessities, right? So, there was talk about wearing diapers and maybe medical tubes going down the the flooring, catheters, right?
>> That’s what they do in the Baja 1000. You guys put a catheter in to drive that thing.
>> Right. Right.
>> We thought about all that. Um, and then we realized like, okay, you’re going 6 hours. If you’re not chugging water or coffee or diuretics, like, you know, then you’re not going to have to pee every 20 minutes. Like, right,
>> six hours is fine. Um,
>> so the strategy came down to just basically dehydrating yourselves.
>> Not dehydrating. I mean,
>> just very reduced amount of fluids.
>> You didn’t want to consume too much. I think I actually um had enough time at the one of the fuel stops to
>> right
>> go to the bathroom fully.
>> Oh.
>> Um
>> yeah, cuz they were like we we tried to keep them to about 5 minutes,
>> right?
>> Um which is how long it took to fill up 30 gallons of fuel.
>> And you know, by the time you and we didn’t like you didn’t know which gas station you were stopping at. We actually pulled off the highway and tried to go to one gas station and it was like shut down, closed. just like kill [snorts] time there.
>> Yeah. Oh [ __ ]
>> I would imagine just anything like that like some dude is is stuck in the bathroom and you can’t get in there like that all is costing time.
>> And we stopped another time because
>> one of the the antennas for the um the radio to the plane wasn’t working. So we stopped then and then like the thermal imaging camera lens got a little wet because it was raining and so we stopped to wipe that off. I’m like this couldn’t time just go.
>> Yeah. Every time you step on the brake, it’s costing you.
>> Yeah.
>> It’s it’s it’s costing your your average.
>> We had sections of that cuz I I was like so proud of my driving from Ohio to Oklahoma. Like we were
>> How fast how fast did you go?
>> I went as fast as I can whenever I could,
>> which is
>> Yeah. 135, 145, 150, you know. It’s like Yeah.
>> I saw a picture you you buried the needle on the the speedometer on that M5.
>> I did. Well, as we as you know about BMWs, if if your needle says 175, you’re actually doing 152. So,
>> yeah. Yeah.
>> Oh, I know.
>> 3% deviants. Yeah.
>> Um, but yeah. So, I And people are like, “What was the fastest you went?” So, there were times where I just I pinned it just to
>> Yeah.
>> say we went that fast [laughter]
>> for the Graham before there was a Graham.
>> I mean, [ __ ] When we did the the gumball rally in 03, we were going across the I 10. We were doing 170 mph and um the guy in the F50 and a GT2 were walking away from us.
>> Really?
>> You did that for like is the acceleration part up to like 150 160 is scary, but once you’re doing 170 for like 5 minutes, it’s like you’re just rolling.
>> Yeah.
>> Doesn’t seem fast.
>> Um car anyway.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say it all depends on the car. I guess it’s kind of like when you’re uh you know skydiving,
>> right?
>> That first initial jump is like whoa, it’s scary.
>> And once you hit 125 milesPH, it just feels like a big fan in your face.
>> When once you hit terminal velocity, you’re like, oh, this ain’t so bad. [laughter]
>> All right.
>> I love the the butterflies in the stomach freef fall.
>> Why we do what we do?
>> So, uh I read a couple of different um I guess
>> Wait, we I want to go back because you said the police scanner. We didn’t we didn’t get to the part of the story. So,
>> yeah. Um, so Alex jumps in the car and he’s all geared up because, you know, I had just driven for 12 hours.
>> This is where you throw him under the bus.
>> I’m getting there. [laughter] Um, cuz he was all over my case. Like if I just, you know, had to move in the right lane or pass somebody in the the the right lane and
>> he was the safe guy.
>> He’s like, “Dave, I like that move on Gumble. I don’t like it here.” I was like, “Yeah, whatever.” Like, so he gets in the car and he cuts off [snorts] like a Tahoe or a mini a white minivan and they beep the horn at him. He’s like, “Ah, you know, we’re don’t they know we’re trying to save lives or whatever because we got the um we were storm watchers. That was going to be
>> That’s right. That’s right.”
>> Um and so we laughed about it, but I was like, “Yeah, sometimes you got to do it.” Then five minutes later on the police scanner, we have a report of a blue BMW driving recklessly and weaving in and out of traffic.
>> And it was [laughter] him. And then and then we hear the police scanner. I got a visual on the BMW.
>> Oh no.
>> And Alex looks in the rearview mirror. I couldn’t see it, but the guy cut across a meeting and comes after us.
>> Yeah.
>> So, yes, the the police scanner worked. Um
>> what did you did you guys get pulled over?
>> So, we got off like the next exit.
>> Yeah.
>> And I was like, I’m in the car like
>> unless he saw you doing it. It’s kind of hearsay, right? And um but if we had had a traffic stop, it would have been bad. So we got off and we waited for about 5 minutes. And then this is where we were like so freaked out that we were like missing time and not on the road and we’re stopped and like now we’re in trouble. We’re going to get caught and like um and so the plane is circling and they’re like I got two bogeies in the center median and I don’t I don’t think we ever heard any of that. We can hear it clearly now if you go back and watch the the footage in the car. Um, so, um, we we did the Smokey and the Bandit move. We we pulled in, we saw the cops.
>> We pulled next to a 18-wheeler and went on the inside of the two cops, but they were both pointed the other direction. I don’t know if they would have saw us anyway, but
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, we we evaded police there. Um, and it’s kind of a great story and it’s pretty well captured in the documentary.
>> Yeah. Because there was a documentary done. What what what plug it, what is the name of Yeah. It’s um it’s called Apex, a secret race across America.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
>> and what’s cool about the documentary, which is why we had Cory Wells in the backseat of the cars, her dad was friends with David De and Doug Turner, the guys who set the record in ‘ 83. and she had all of this original old footage from the cars peeling out of the garage and um the red ball garage and like you know all the 308s and 928s and 911s and Mazda RX7s and um so seeing all of that is like cuz you saw it in the movie like but here you see it in real life it’s like that actually did happen.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
>> that’s awesome.
>> Yeah. And um one guy had a Panta Damaso scooped up. Yeah.
>> Nice. So, um, I want to ask you because I think it was in the book, but I don’t remember quite well. How is the time officially like taken like it it’s it’s just not somebody’s word for it?
>> Yes and no. Um, you you got to figure out how best to document it, right?
>> Um, we had a clock that we punched a time card in and then they flew the clock to California and had it waiting for us when we got there and so we punched a clock again.
>> Oh, nice. Um,
>> oh,
>> so, but here’s here’s a really funny thing that that was just a clear oversight that we didn’t think about. It’s like we didn’t set a stopwatch. So, you go from New York to LA,
>> you go through three different time changes and by the time you get there, you’ve been up for about 50 hours. So, you’re delirious and your brain isn’t working.
>> Yeah.
>> And so,
>> trying to put as little fluids in your body as possible. And so I’m like, “Okay, we left at this time. What time is it now? How many hours?” And you’re trying to count and like plus the time changes. And and it’s like I finally got to in my head what the time was. And we were we were going to break the record, but we weren’t going to break it by a lot. I wanted to break it by at least an hour.
>> You wanted it to be solid. So when we got to LA from a 100 miles out from the Santa Monica Pier where we finished, I said to Alex, I’m like, “Alex, we got a boogie.”
>> Uhhuh.
>> We got to average 100 miles an hour from here to the pier. And he did it [laughter] right through downtown LA. Average 100 miles an hour. So
>> that’s
>> we got 3104 and it was 3207. So we broke it by an hour and a few minutes.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And it was all because I said we got average to break the record.
>> Otherwise, he would have, you know, played it.
>> He didn’t know when we like he can’t do that math. And like I was sitting in the passenger seat like time. It’s like smoke was coming out of my ears trying to figure it out. But and then and then I got him to drive 100 miles an hour straight through downtown LA. So to me, I think visually it’s fascinating and there’s pictures of this where the driver is just strictly focused on, you know, on on what’s in on the windshield and then some of the, you know, the devices in front of them and then the the passenger is essentially spotter, right? You guys have your your binoculars.
>> Alex got a pair of like military gyro stabilized binoculars and they made this horrible like worring noise. Um, but it did help from getting bouncy and like we looked on every on-ramp to see if the cops like Yeah, ramp track clear like you know that was like every time I went by a ramp. Um,
>> and even like we hit some traffic, we’re doing like 35 miles an hour.
>> Alex, we got a ramp check there. Like, Alex, we don’t need a ramp check. We’re doing 35 miles an hour and 65.
>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]
>> So, so I I think just that visual alone, I think it’s just fascinating. It’s like you guys were on like it was this was a mission like
>> it was a mission. I mean you know you felt like you were out there with
>> you know the spotter plane didn’t really help spot for any cops for us but it gave a level of confidence that we had friends in the air.
>> Yeah.
>> Paul Weissman the pilot is a old friend of Alex’s from Horseman and he’s also he does a lot of the endurance racing now which I’ve done some with him. Um [clears throat] and so we [snorts] do all the racing stuff together which is great. Um and um so he he was flying above us and like you know he was just there for you know comic relief at times and just just a level of confidence like
>> sure
>> they would they would be able to tell us if like there were spikes laid down in the in the road or there was like a blockade or something like that or like something major like that but like you know I was like where were you on that one that’s we saw that cop we didn’t didn’t report that one to us. So what’s interesting about that is that once you guys broke the record and you guys had documented that you had a you know a spotter plane there was I would call him the the purist right that they were like poo pooing the idea that you guys had a spotter plane which is actually hilarious as we fast forward into subsequent record being broken more and more times seven years later um it was Ed Bolan
>> Ed Boen yeah
>> in Mercedes he he broke the record. I did it in 28 hours and 50 minutes and that was standing for a while until
>> Yeah. So Ed Ed broke our record and and our trip we had torrential rain and we had down a one lane closure on a two-lane highway. So we were just watching the average tick up this whole time. It was like ah we were so close. We had this record and I was like I really didn’t think we were going to break it.
>> Yeah. Um, we I pushed so hard those those every time I was in the car, but it’s like I like he’s got police lights on that car. So,
>> yeah.
>> Um, I was like, I think we should just maybe turn them on,
>> bolt down the shoulder like we can’t do it. Like, okay.
>> You guys never turned on the lights, the police lights. [laughter]
>> I wanted to.
>> Yeah, I wanted to.
>> Okay, so we’re starting to run out of time, but there’s so much more to cover. So, I don’t know how much you’re familiar with the whole cannonball thing.
>> So, in 2020 during CO, this is when like just [ __ ] went crazy, right?
>> Shut everything down.
>> Everything. The entire planet was shut down. There was no traffic. So, that record was broken. From what I understand, it was like seven different times within a span of weeks.
>> Well, people don’t want to count it.
>> Yeah. The guys The guys
>> had to Yeah. Doug and Arie who have 2539, they went out and they broke our ED’s record and then that record was broken and then they went back and and
>> broke that record. Yeah.
>> And a whole bunch of other people had gone that time too. So it was getting to the tail end of of um you know
>> the lockdown.
>> But a lot of people but from what I’ve read about this a lot of people don’t want to count those records that are broken during CO because technically it wasn’t the same circumstances that you had to drive through and Ed had to drive through. Yes. So, this I know I’ve seen this online.
>> Everybody says there’s an asterisk, but
>> that’s that’s why I reference the the spotter plane. People be like, “Oh, well, you guys use a spotter plane and then, oh, there was co there’s always going to be something, you know,
>> there are no rules. There’s a start and finish.”
>> So,
>> I think they took advantage of a situation where, you know, it presented itself the most advantageous to, you know, to run that.
>> I will be very surprised if that record’s ever broken. Listen, 25 hours and 39 minutes is a standing record. It’s
>> crazy.
>> Just over a day in coast to coast, man.
>> They average 110 where we average 9010
>> 20 m an hour faster.
>> Again, like to most people if they think 110 that’s not a big deal. I mean, know most cars can easily do that. No, it’s 110 average. So, you got to average the stops. So,
>> they were they were booking
>> well above 160 for a lot of the time.
>> Yes. And instead of spotter planes, all those guys used spotters that would go out and drive ahead of them. And so they had series of spotters and they tell them when to go. And
>> they had 30 different cars as spotters. So they had different mile markers where they they would deploy these spotters and then they would drive ahead in doing the speed limit and let them know, you know, if there was any obstacles or
>> Well planned.
>> Yeah. Oh, it was it definitely was. Um
>> Oh my god, we’re running out of time. Okay, listen. I want to get into Uh, you know what? Next time you come back, we’re going to have to dive more into that. Uh, because there’s plenty more. So, I want to talk about your near brushes with death. So, you’ve had two that I recall
>> that you know about.
>> Yes. That I know about
>> in the same holiday, MLK. MLK day.
>> Yeah.
>> So, we have 18 minutes. talk us real quick about the first one and then uh um 2005 um yeah 2005 um I had a 9:30 turbo aptly named the Widowmaker. Um Martin Luther King Day falls in mid January when it’s very very cold in the Northeast. Um [clears throat] and I was at a friend’s house for um for a party because had the day off on Martin Luther King Day on Monday. So um everybody was passed out and I was going up to my favorite bagel place which is 20 minutes up the road and um and I got into the turbo and turbos love cold air.
>> Yeah.
>> But summer tires don’t love 16° weather. Um, and and those cars had, I think, 290 horsepower [snorts] stock. Mine made 400.
>> Um,
>> and I was going up this hill. There’s a little bend at the top of the hill and there’s a actually a little trace of snow um that has that hadn’t melted off because it was warmest ever got that day was 16 degrees.
>> Yeah. Um, [clears throat] and so going around this bend, summer tires and pendulum effect of the the rear engine car, I got a little loose and tried to catch it. Then I realized I wasn’t catching it and I was there was oncoming traffic coming on southbound lines. I was headed north and there was a gap in that traffic. I’m like, if I’m sliding off through it, I better pick a gap where I’m not going to hit another car.
>> Yeah. And um so I just put both feet in, clutch brake, and I was like kind of looking over my shoulder a little bit and I was like, “Uh, please don’t hit any trees.” And um well, I didn’t hit a tree. I hit a telephone pole.
>> I broke it with my driver’s door. Um and
>> and that picture is incredible. Hey, Eric, if we can bring that up, the picture of the Porsche. Um,
>> there’s one of me standing in the in the
>> Yeah, bring out both of those pictures. Have you seen these pictures?
>> No.
>> It’s like, how do you walk away from that,
>> man? Hit there. Um,
>> dude, that’s crazy. That’s the driver’s side.
>> Yeah, that’s that was my seat.
>> That’s crazy.
>> Can you bring up the other one? It’s just that Yeah, look at that.
>> That’s crazy.
>> So, that should have killed me.
>> Yes. Yeah, that’s uh if it’s good or bad aim, however you want to compare it, that’s
>> what I did. Um was I saw it coming and at the last minute just I I I blacked out, but I dove into the passenger seat of the car.
>> Oh, good move.
>> I wasn’t wearing a seat belt. Um
>> not that those seat belts even worked well in that back
>> it would have pinned me to that seat. Yeah. Um, and next thing I know, I’m I’m standing outside the car and it’s wrecked and the the windshield had just like left like
>> it popped out.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Just went flying out.
>> Yeah. Because they weren’t here and they were the clip.
>> I had a Valentine one in it and and it was wrapped around the wing mirror as [laughter] it was suction cup to the windscreen. Yeah.
>> Um
>> and then a cop comes up and I guess somebody called and I saw it happen.
>> Yeah.
>> So a cop comes up to me and goes, “Where’s the driver?” Yes.
>> I was like, [snorts] I was driving. He goes, “No, the driver is dead.” [laughter]
>> I was driving.
>> Yeah.
>> So, [ __ ]
>> that was that was Martin Luther King Day 2005.
>> Okay. So, the next the next MLK day that uh that one was horrific what you did to your head.
>> Yeah. Um, so I was um just out in New Jersey again and um a friend stopped by on their side by side and um said, “Come on over for dinner.” And I wasn’t doing anything. So I said, “Yeah, sure.” And I just hopped on a dirt bike and um I rode through the woods and opened a gate to a cow field so they could go through and side by side closed it and then I was speeding off to get the gate to the other side. And by the best assumption I can make for the what happened to my head. Um I think cuz everything was frozen again. Yeah. Like I hit a little, you know, it was like
>> hoof divots were like ice puddles and I think you the tires just spun and got high side as the back compressed and I got launched over the side.
>> Right.
>> Um and I land on my head and I wasn’t wearing a helmet. So it was basically like hitting rock. It’s like frozen tundra.
>> And then and you woke up in the hospital.
>> Um yeah. I I
>> Eric, if you can bring up the picture of Is
>> that’s one side of my head.
>> Oh my goodness.
>> And that’s the other side. Yeah. My dad called me Spalding cuz it looked like pitching for baseball. [laughter]
>> What’s What’s incredible is that these two events happen on the same holiday, MLK day.
>> Yeah.
>> Maybe we should just take it easy on MLK day, man.
>> Yeah. [laughter] I always encourage you.
>> Maybe just sit, you know, sit at home, read a book.
>> Yeah. Like in a padded cell. I remember talking to you one day and it was MLK. I’m like, David, you’re you’re going to say that home, right?
>> It’s always a holiday nursing fun. [laughter]
>> You know, it’s crazy. Okay. Like, if that’s not bad enough, you think, you know, most I think normal people would be like,
>> in a in a medically induced coma for 3 weeks.
>> Yeah. You got to learn how to walk.
>> Yeah. I was breathing through a hole in my neck. Now I got another hole in my neck.
>> Yeah. So, tell us about that real quick. Most people will be like, you know what? I need to take it easy. Like I’ve had two brushes with [laughter] death.
>> No, not not David.
>> Yeah, I broke uh three vertebrae on my neck. Um couple of ribs. I tore my AC joint. I got this funny bone sticks out my shoulder now. And um I tore my quadricep tendon um as part of that accident. And then [clears throat]
>> I was in rough shape, man. It’s like
>> Yeah. You know,
>> feeding me through a tube in my stomach and
>> respirator and all the other stuff. And you know, when I took my first steps, I looked back at that video. I was like, who is that guy? Does not look like me. Um, and then, um, you know, I was in therapy. I was in inatient therapy for a week and outpatient therapy for a few weeks and I just went to the gym every day. I was like, I’m not letting this
>> Yeah.
>> Good for you.
>> Take me down. And in six months in August, I was in the best shape of my life.
>> Yeah,
>> dude. Big kudos to you, man. Cuz And you just picked up where you left off. I mean, I’m not saying you jump back into a race car right away, but I mean, you’re racing now.
>> I I did actually jump back in a race car. Um, I race at Indie with Paul Weissman, the pilot from the Cannonball, and we, um, my first race back, we came in third place.
>> You probably still had stitches in your head. [laughter]
>> Dude, when they were pulling those staples out and they were dropping them like clink.
>> Yeah.
>> Clink. It’s like, how many of these are there?
>> Okay. [laughter] So, so let’s jump to to 2026 where you were supposed to be, you know, our first repeat uh guest. You were supposed to be here for our our one-year anniversary. Couldn’t make it because Well, you nearly killed yourself again. Yes,
>> I spent the entire month of March skiing. I actually went to
>> Oh, I was going to say, was it MLK day again?
>> Uh, no, it’s January. [laughter]
>> In January, I went to Japan, went skiing. Yeah.
>> And Eric, we have another picture of uh David in the uh ambulance or getting ready to be pulled in there.
>> So, what happened?
>> Um well, I I I concussed myself really bad. Um
>> and since my my skull is no longer structurally sound, even with a helmet on it,
>> um like my hand went pins and needles, like I can’t write still. I can’t use chopsticks. I’m like um tying my shoe is very difficult. It’s getting a little bit easier. Um [clears throat] and in 2018 when I and I broke my head um I had a compression on my spinal cord and I’ve always wanted to know um is a disc and the C4C5 which is your um cervical spine um there’s a compression in the spinal cord and so when you have are crushing the signals from your brain to your body
>> um stuff doesn’t work as well anymore. And I was like, “Well,” and doctors at the time told me I should do that, but I was like, I just came out a few weeks like, “Oh, I don’t want to go through any more
>> operations.” Um, [clears throat] and I actually went to two doctors. One said do a fusion, one said do a disc. I went to the Mayo Clinic out in Rochester. Like, look at you. I wouldn’t do anything. So, I took that advice. Um, but so now when I racked my head, um, again skiing, I I decided it was time to go get this disc cleaned up, take the pressure off my spinal cord, and kind of hope that some of this sensation loss that I’ve been experiencing since 2018 comes back.
>> Yeah, that’s crazy.
>> Yeah,
>> I’m glad you’re still with us.
>> This was the easiest surgery. It took one hour. I was home that day. I drove myself to the beach and took a walk on the beach at Sunrise the next day.
>> You sent me I I reached out to you shortly after that. I was like, “Hey, man. How you doing?” And he sends me he doesn’t say he doesn’t say I’m doing all right. He just sends me a picture this gnarly picture of a this scar on his neck like it just it looked like
>> what’s the scar of the neck when they did the fusion or
>> Yeah. So they go through the front of the neck to to take this guy and then um
>> and they they did all that.
>> I was I was nervous about that surgery cuz the guy who
>> Oh, that’s where you were nervous. [laughter]
>> The guy who did my
>> You’re right. That one really
>> The guy who did my
>> not the brain. I got to make sure I research this pot. everybody that that gets that that surgery who’s I’m not the first person to have a
>> a disc replaced
>> of course of course
>> and everybody’s like oh my doctor’s the best so like it takes an hour it’s it’s pretty pretty easy
>> all right listen we are under 9 minutes I didn’t think we’re going to be able to get to our rapid fire questions but we are
>> awesome
>> so listen let’s make these really really quickly I’m going to try to turn it over to you when you know we have time all right rapid fire questions here we So, number one, uh, fastest
>> pressure.
>> Fastest you’ve ever driven on a public road.
>> I don’t want to incriminate myself.
>> There’s a statute of limitations.
>> I mean, I have pictures of all speedometers in my car. Car is maxed out. And um the the 550 Marino, I only got up to 196.
>> 196. All right. Number two. Uh, which is scarier, the Cannibal Run or the Porsche 930T? scarier. Um, I love that 9:30. Yeah,
>> I was heartbroken when I
>> Sure.
>> broke a telephone pole with it.
>> So, the cannonball then?
>> Uh, yeah. I mean, listen, now you I wouldn’t do it.
>> I can’t afford any more speeding on my license, but
>> Oh, you go straight to jail now.
>> Now it’s criminal stuff. Yeah. Over 100 in Florida. They take you to jail.
>> Yep. Yep.
>> All right. Number three. Uh, do brushes with death make you more cautious or just more selective about the risks you take?
>> Well, basically what that’s taught me is I’m invincible.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. I’m going to live forever.
>> Okay.
>> None of that shit’s killed me yet.
>> What else will [laughter]
>> I guess that’s true? Yeah, at this point. Yeah.
>> I don’t know about hanging out with you. [laughter]
>> Yeah,
>> that some of that might uh rub off. All right.
>> I’ve been hitting the head too many times now. After two major crashes on MLK day, do you stay home on that holiday now?
>> No.
>> No. Okay. Uh, number five. One thing you still haven’t done in a car that you need to do before you’re finished.
>> I want to roll a car. I want to roll one over.
>> Shut up, dude. Are you sure?
>> You’re right. Cuz hitting a telephone bolt just wasn’t enough.
>> I I want I want to roll a Jeep
>> bucket list.
>> Like on purpose?
>> Yeah. [laughter] I guess you just take it to a mountain and just roll it, right?
>> Yeah.
>> My goodness, David. I I learn new things from every time we talk and I learn something new. [snorts]
>> All right, number six. What’s the go-to car to mask poor driving skills?
>> I mean, anything new. [clears throat]
>> Yeah.
>> Have anything new?
>> Like you can be you can be like a
>> a B minus driver. Yeah.
>> And still set
>> you could be
>> record laps and
>> Yeah.
>> You could be he cares that everybody.
>> You could be a C driver and like the car is going to make you look good out there.
>> Yeah.
>> You know.
>> Okay.
>> That’s That’s true.
>> I won the SuperLab Series Championship with a car with no traction control.
>> Yeah. That thing that had a
>> manual transmission.
>> Oh, I mean it did have like 700 horsepower.
>> 550.
>> Okay. only. [gasps]
>> Uh, number seven, what’s more exhausting, 30 31 hours across the country or a champ car race weekend?
>> I would definitely say the cannonball cuz champ car you get two hours stints and you can relax after your stint.
>> Yeah. All right. Uh, last one. What mattered more on the cannonball run, speed, preparation, or nerve?
>> Speed.
>> Just flat out raw speed. Quick answer.
>> What did I all the planning? I was like, I showed up to Alex, he invited me. I said yes. I got in the car and put the pedal down. That was all the planning I did. [laughter]
>> You were the unsung hero, some would say, you know, cuz I mean, you’ve really made that record happen.
>> I don’t think Alex could have done it.
>> Yeah.
>> On his own. Not with his strategy.
>> You you you pushed them. You need a little bit of the reckless strategy to to to do it.
>> Yeah.
>> Go as fast as you can when you can.
>> Yeah. I mean, I guess that’s the essence of what it is. Yeah.
>> David Demon Doug Turner used in 1983.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You wouldn’t do it again. A cannibal.
>> I would not do it again.
>> It seems crazy now, right? To do something like that.
>> But you want to roll a Jeep.
>> So, it’s like [laughter] I will not do the cannonball, but I will roll a Jeep.
>> All right. Listen, that does it for our rapid fire questions. Let’s move over to our guest challenge. This is where you have a chance to challenge two of your friends to come on the podcast. So, if you have two friends in mind, go ahead and look into your camera and lay down the challenge. Um, I would I would recommend two Danny’s. Um, Danny Martin, who’s the um East Coast rep for AC Cars, got a lot of cool stories of that.
>> All right.
>> And uh the other Danny is Danny Lima from RMC Miami. He’s um he imports all these crazy cars from Japan, everywhere else, fix them up, and he’s got a great business down there.
>> All right,
>> sounds good.
>> And and he’s had a lot of track days. The guy can drive. The guys he can wheel.
>> That’s good.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. The two Danny’s the uh challenge has been laid down by David. If you guys are interested in coming on the podcast, Off the Racing Line, simply go to off theracingline.com, fill out the form, let us know when you want to come in, and we will make that happen. David, it’s been fantastic having you on the show again.
>> Again?
>> Yes. We’re You’re going to be a three.
>> The first and the first return.
>> Yes. And we will have you back cuz we just we always run out of time. You have too many great stories that I want I want to dive into. Please stop wrecking your brain and your head. And
>> yeah,
>> I want to keep you as a friend a little bit longer. You know, maybe we can go racing soon.
>> Yes.
>> Sounds good.
>> Sounds good.
>> All right. Listen, it’s been great having you. Remember, everything interesting happens off the racing line. See you guys next time. [music]
>> Racing line. I took the hard road of early strife. The road from [music] dreamer to driver ain’t always straight. [music] Down.
